By Pastor Mike Taylor
1st Thessalonians 4:15 “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
I have started with the witness of our Lord and Savior's apostle to the Gentiles and taught to him personally by revelation of Jesus Christ glorified. I had been reading in 1st and 2ndThessalonians this weekend, and was just so swept away with Paul's testimony towards this Church that he founded in the name of Jesus. There is much controversy about what Paul was speaking of and it's timing. I will in this message address those controversies in factions of the religious community that read, I believe, not what Jesus, or Paul, John or Daniel was speaking of when it comes to these last days and the appearing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I get every now and then opponents to the concept of the church being removed out of the way from receiving God's Divine wrath upon a sinful world that is in full rebellion to His Law, and the only substitution for redemption of the breaking of God's Commandments is in the blood sacrifice of His Only Son, Jesus Christ, which they reject.
Let us first go to 1st Thessalonians and read what Paul instructed this early church on what was coming, and was not only for their ears, but was written down for our admonition in these last days.
As is typical for Paul in his letters, he greets them in love in his opening lines to each of the brethren written to. But in reading on down we come to the first hint that Paul was speaking of a coming event that is yet to transpire. In verse 9, he begins his first nugget of a truth that I have always embraced: 1st Thesalonians:
1:9 “For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”
Paul is writing to the church members and Revelation had not even been written yet by John. He speaks of wrath? This is the coming wrath of Almighty God on rampant rebellion of the nations of this earth in a future time, our time.
You can find many examples of God's wrath to come, even starting in the Old Testament concerning what is coming: Psalms 110,
110:4 “The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.”
Paul speaks of this time further in Hebrews (I believe Paul is the unmentioned author) concerning the wrath of God,
12:26 “Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.”
Of course, we can get a feel of God's wrath when we go to Revelation, but this book is not the only place that speaks of God's wrath to come, but we get the intensity and fierceness of the idea: Revelation,
6:13“And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:”
Understand one thing my reader, the coming time of tribulation is divine judgment on a world devoid of love for one another, and committing untold sinful acts in complete rebellion to God's Law and authority, and who have whole-hardheartedly rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only payment for their sinful condition. Do we not understand that God will destroy up to 80% of all mankind in natural environmental catastrophes and what only be assigned extraordinary Divine occurrences not known to man in modern times and can only be attributed to Almighty God? Humanity is nearly wiped out, but as John wrote, “if the time were not shortened, no flesh would be saved” Let us guesstimate the carnage that will be inflicted on this world, if all of us were still on this planet and none of us were removed. Right now we are approaching or have eclipsed the 7 billion mark of humanity on this planet. If we somehow envision the destruction of 80% of all mankind, that would be 5.6 billion people dying a horrible death leaving roughly little more than 1.4 billion people left. God warned that He will punish the inhabitants of the earth.
Isaiah 26:20 speaks of this coming wrath:
26:19 “Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.”
(A clear passage of divine intervention and removal of His people before He slays mankind on earth)
Jesus also gave, what I believe is a sister verse of the one Isaiah wrote down, found in John 14:2-4,
“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.”
See the parallel between the two verse passages? Jesus is coming to bring us to Himself, that where He is, we will be...He will hide us in our chambers, our mansions until His indignation passes by....God will come for judgment and we are not involved in it at all.
Oh, I hear the objections who say that the last trump in the opening verses of this message is the same trump that the 7th angel blows in Revelation, but fail to understand that Paul was speaking of a last trump associated with the Feast of Trumpets. For a detailed summary of my position on this gross error by some churches today, go to my website and read “Confusion over End-time Events” or even my last message, “Did Jesus Reveal the Day of His Return?”. In each, the conflicts over these trumpets will be explained. One signals a joyous reunion, the other brings damnation and judgment to those upon the earth....they are NOT the same trumpet that Paul spoke of, as John spoke of a totally different trump in a different time frame.
Paul steps it up a bit in the later chapters of 1st Thessalonians in chapter 5:
5:1 “But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,”
How much more clear can Paul say it? Paul speaks of Jesus coming as a thief, or in secret and the nations not knowing the hour of His coming. Do you think that the coming of the Lord when He comes to rule on this planet for 1000 years at the end of the Tribulation will be proceeded in secret? Do you think He will come when they expect it not? Paul talks of sudden destruction, as woman in child labor will not escape the pain or the delivery of the baby. What fits this scenario, a sudden, without warning snatching away of children of light, to the horror of the children of darkness...OR would it be more plausible for them to be going about business as usual in the very run-up to the Glorious Appearing of Jesus Christ in the clouds of glory with great power ( proceeded by the appearance of great signs and wonders in the heavens . Joel 2:30-31). With almost 5.6 billion people being consumed, dead bodies all around, with animals eating the corpses of those slain, and the carnage of divine retribution, would it be business as usual? Let us examine the signs of His post Tribulation appearing, shall we? Will it be business as usual? I think we can find the answer.
Revelation,
8:6 “And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.”
ON down,
8:12 “And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
Reading on down the horror that is unleashed by this fourth angel till we get to the fifth angel:
9:1 “And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.”
More pain and suffering/death when the sixth angel sounds his trumpet:
9:13 “And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.”
Then to the end of the chapter 9, descriptions of a most detailed description of what will befall rebellious mankind. Until, the seventh angel sounds his trumpet to unleash the final assault upon earth in an attempt to turn them to repentance, but God knows that they will not. Revelation 16:20 testifies that every island will be moved and mountains will fall flat. As a result of the great convulsion of the earth, massive land transformations occur, shifting mountains on land and undersea. Obviously, such a violent shaking will create unprecedented destruction and loss of life. As the conclusion of the sixth seal's disturbances, this displacement of terra firma is the calamity that most terrifies earth's inhabitants. Suddenly, nothing is stable—not even the earth under their feet!
Again, does this sound like Jesus coming back to this earth as a thief? Will not men know that they are under divine retribution? Will the world that is present be nearly extinguished of all life from what it was prior to the beginning of the opening of the 1st Seal, as found in Revelation 6:1? Will men be going about business as usual? Men's hearts will be failing them from fear, over what is coming upon the earth. Luke 21:26.
Sheer terror will reign supreme. Does this sound like business as usual? Opponents, ask yourselves, does this sound like as in the time of day of Noah (Matthew 24:37), or does it sound like there is another time period prior to these events that addresses this more realistically and prophetically? Think on that a bit, as I return to Paul addressing the Thessalonians in 2nd Thessalonians.
THE GREAT DAY OF THE LORD
Here the church at Thessalonica was troubled, as false prophets had entered into their midst and were preaching that the “Day of the Lord” had already happened. I call them “Ancient Preterist” who believed that all things had been fulfilled, and we were just waiting for Jesus to come back, except this church at Thessalonica understood the Day of the Lord, as judgment and wrath, not a sign of joy.
Paul admonished them:
1:4 “So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”
Paul re-teaches them what he had already told them concerning the coming “Day of the Lord”.
Why were they fearful? They believed that they had missed the coming of the Lord for His Church and were found wanting and not fit to be removed from the earth and were waiting for the judgment from God, which would mean they missed the greatest event in all of man-kind, next the crucifixion and resurrection of the Lord Jesus the Messiah. Paul explains:
2:1 “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
Paul explains that this MUST happen first before the Great Day of the Lord, and His judgment upon earth. John reveals in Revelation that this man is revealed by a number:
13:16 “And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.”
This is what Paul spoke of, and what John through the Revelation of Jesus Christ shared with us. He spoke again of this man. Going back to Paul, as he continues in chapter 2 of 2nd Thessalonians,
2:4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
THE RUNNER UP TO THE ANTI-CHRIST
No where in history after this time period has a man stood in the temple of Jerusalem and claimed to be a god. Only once in the history of the nation of Israel had a man stood in the temple and claimed to be a god, and it was many centuries before this verse was penned by Paul. What he is telling us, is that prophecy has duality, or will repeat itself in our time, and remember, these verses were written for us in modern end times, not just of the church Paul and John wrote them to. Who was that man who stood in the temple and a fore runner of the modern Abomination who causeth Desolation, as Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15? His name was Antiochus Epiphanies, and he made a statue of Zeus, with his face and put it in the Holy of Holies in the Temple of Jerusalem and proclaimed all must worship it on pain of death. He also sacrificed pigs on the altars of God, which were considered unclean. So this man defiled the temple that led to the Maccabean War and the observance of Hanukkah, or the cleansing of the temple. As Jesus prophesied, and as John and Paul revealed, it will happen again.
Let's look at verse 7 of this last passage. We, as watchmen on the wall, have hammered this home many, many times. Bible students, who is “only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”? If you said the Holy Spirit within each true born again Christian, you receive an A+, as by interpretation in context, it is the only thing that is holding back Satan the devil, having full sway on this earth and attempting full destruction of mankind, along with receiving worship for himself. I like theNIV's interpretation of this same passage...let's look at it:
2nd Thessaians 2:6-7 NIV, “And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time v. 7: for the secret power of lawlessness is already at work: but the ONE who now holds it back will continue to do so till HE is taken out of the way.”
For me, this is a strong argument that the church has been removed out of the way, BEFORE the man of perdition, whose name is identified with 666, is revealed and stands in the temple of God, claiming to be a god. Note that Jesus said that He would never leave us or forsake us, (Hebrews 13:5, Matthew 28:20) ,hence He sent His Holy Spirit, as counselor, comforter, and guider of our walk with our Lord and Savior. If God's Holy Spirit is removed, based on the clear Word of our Lord, who cannot lie, we will be removed as well.
Daniel chapter 9, and the Abomination that Causeth Desolation
KJV Daniel 9,
9:26 “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
I read where a national organized religion that split apart in the 80s, called the World Wide Church of God, interpreted that passage not to be the Anti-Christ, but the Messiah. Still in existence are pocket organizations who still adhere to this argument, in their attempt to discredit the concept that there will actually be an Anti-Christ, or argue against a 7 year tribulation. They are proponents of post-tribulation second coming and are anticipating, OR relishing the idea of being slain in the Tribulation. When I read that explanation, I was aghast. I went to a website of theirs and pulled this text:
“The most abused verse on the subject of the end times is Daniel 9:27, and it is a linchpin in the Pre-tribulation Rapture theory: 'Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.'Unlike the Protestants, we believe that "he" in this verse refers to Messiah, not Antichrist, for the main subject of this section is Messiah. Richard Ritenbaugh, Prophecy Watch.”
True, the beginning of the passage deals with Jesus Christ, but He did not cease the sacrifices in the temple. It continue unabated until 70 AD when the Temple was leveled to the ground by Roman soldiers of Tiberius. Then they go onto to say that:
In Isaiah 28:15, we protestants and "a covenant with death," say that the Antichrist makes a peace treaty for one week—seven years—with the Jews. But this makes no sense! Why would the Beast "destroy the city [Jerusalem] and the sanctuary" (Daniel 9:26), and "then . . . confirm a covenant . . . for one week"
In this analogy, they deny the clear implication of Daniel's 70 week prophecy that was interrupted when Messiah was cut off in year 483 of the prophecy. That leaves the last 7 years that must be completed for Israel to be saved and receive their Messiah. Obviously, they don't understand the time-line of history, or duality of prophecy. I think anyone, including this minister, is blinded by their ideology of a failed organization that proposed that the second return of Jesus Christ would be in 1972, hence many members of this denomination sold all they had, took no social security, or started living in caves. I recall the cry of “flee in 73” as their mantra. Did it happen? No, much like Harold Camping's failed prophecy, false prophets are all within the camp of the religious and doomed to their predictions of when or how Jesus will return. Now is that minister a false prophet? I am not singling him out, but it is a mindset of many post tribbers that this promise of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is suspect and that we all are full of hogwash which is rampant in this denomination and others just to be fair.
Others in this camp, propose that when Jesus comes in the clouds of heaven to receive His church at the end of the tribulation, that we will be changed. Yes, but then they propose that we turn right around or make a sharp U-turn and come right back down to do battle with the enemies of God in Jerusalem. They site Zechariah chapter 14, when Jesus' feet touch the Mount of Olives. I asked one minister I know, “are we going up to just saddle up?” coming with Jesus on horses, dressed in linen, white and clean as Revelation chapter 19 shows? He had no answer. And what about the Marriage Supper of the Lamb? He proposed it was poetic or an allegory....say what? This same minister pooh-poohs the Jewish wedding feast. Needless to say, we are not in agreement.
Let's examine scripturally what Daniel was referring to and that a vast majority of theologians that are of sound doctrine embrace. I take this from an online website to organize the thought process of examining this passage, which I totally agree with:
“Here are the Sixty nine (7 + 62) "WEEKS" that have already happened:
Daniel 9:25 “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be SEVEN WEEKS , and THREESCORE and TWO WEEKS: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.”
Daniel 9:26 “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.” (note the caps of Prince, and prince, my emphasis. Two different “princes”. Prince of Glory, and prince of this world)
Here is the ONE "WEEK" that remains”
Daniel 9:27 “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE WEEK : and in the MIDST of the WEEK he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
Since God said he would deal with the Jews as a NATION for SEVENTY "WEEKS" and He promised to regather them nationally in the future in preparation for His Coming, then, God plans to deal with the NATION Israel in the future for ONE "WEEK" before He returns. To say that ONE WEEK of Daniel 9:27 has already happened (since God says He will regather Israel as a NATION) is to say there will be 71 WEEKS. To say that the week WILL NOT happen in the future is to say there are less than SEVENTY "WEEKS."
Since we already know (from the 69 weeks that HAVE happened) that a "WEEK" is SEVEN YEARS, then, God must have a future dealing with the NATION Israel for SEVEN years.” (http://jesus-is-the-way.com/Endtimes927.html)
Spot on. Israel is the door to end time prophecy and Jerusalem is the key to that door. The Seventieth Week of Daniel's prophecy is future and deals with ISRAEL solely for their unbelief and to finish transgressions. Israel will embrace, finally, their Messiah and proclaim, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord”( Matthew 23:39). Our Father and our Lord and Savior will purify Israel as silver is refined in the fire. (Malachi 3:2). When Jesus spoke in Matthew 24, concerning the Abomination that Causeth Desolation, His message was pointed straight at Israel. I envision that the only ones who will remain when Jesus returns for divine judgment and take possession of His creation by the sword of His mouth, by speaking only the Words will be mostly Jewish by birth in the majority. He will completely destroy all rebellion, because the only ones who will listen to the 144,000 evangelist from the 12 tribes of Israel, will be of the nation of Israel proper, or those scattered over the earth with a minority of Gentiles that have believed the Truth about Jesus Christ. How many will be blinded to the truth and take the mark of the Beast is conjecture on my part, but is is prophesied that God will send them a lie, a strong delusion, 2nd Thessalonians,
2:8 “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
Note that if you are still here, then God will send you a strong delusion, A LIE, that you will believe because you want to. Your mind will have no protection, as the Holy Spirit is removed from His fullness, right along with His Church. Satan will have full sway, full unimpeded powers to deceive the human mind. Each of those left will embrace the false god of this world, known as the Anti-Christ, no matter what another religion might feed you. So as a watchman on the wall, I have given you witness of four of the major figures in your bible, John, Paul, Daniel, and the Master, Jesus our Messiah. I proclaim the truth, you decide whether to believe. Understand, that I am not preaching to scare you, but to warn you. There is coming a day when salvation will be mostly for the Jewish people, as the Church Age has suddenly ended for you, and you have been caught flat footed. You were not ready, and Jesus has come, as He said He would. Won't you make yourself ready. Wanna know how?
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in HIM, should not perish, but have everlasting life”.
Email me after reading John 3:16 then all of the Gospel of John, just who this man Jesus was, and IS....the great I AM, that I AM...Jehovah God. I would love to hear of your acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord of your life. Repent of your sins for today is the day of salvation. Turn to Jesus so that you will be not surprised by the soon return of our Lord Jesus Christ for His Church....will you be ready? Only if you believe John 3:16! The Lord Jesus is right at the door
This is Pastor Mike Taylor, praying God's salvation in your life and heart. If you have need for counseling, prayer of needs, or just a friendly listening ear, send me an email to realteam1999@sbcglobal.net, God bless you all,
till we meet at Jesus feet.
1st Thessalonians 4:15 “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
I have started with the witness of our Lord and Savior's apostle to the Gentiles and taught to him personally by revelation of Jesus Christ glorified. I had been reading in 1st and 2ndThessalonians this weekend, and was just so swept away with Paul's testimony towards this Church that he founded in the name of Jesus. There is much controversy about what Paul was speaking of and it's timing. I will in this message address those controversies in factions of the religious community that read, I believe, not what Jesus, or Paul, John or Daniel was speaking of when it comes to these last days and the appearing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I get every now and then opponents to the concept of the church being removed out of the way from receiving God's Divine wrath upon a sinful world that is in full rebellion to His Law, and the only substitution for redemption of the breaking of God's Commandments is in the blood sacrifice of His Only Son, Jesus Christ, which they reject.
Let us first go to 1st Thessalonians and read what Paul instructed this early church on what was coming, and was not only for their ears, but was written down for our admonition in these last days.
As is typical for Paul in his letters, he greets them in love in his opening lines to each of the brethren written to. But in reading on down we come to the first hint that Paul was speaking of a coming event that is yet to transpire. In verse 9, he begins his first nugget of a truth that I have always embraced: 1st Thesalonians:
1:9 “For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”
Paul is writing to the church members and Revelation had not even been written yet by John. He speaks of wrath? This is the coming wrath of Almighty God on rampant rebellion of the nations of this earth in a future time, our time.
You can find many examples of God's wrath to come, even starting in the Old Testament concerning what is coming: Psalms 110,
110:4 “The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.”
Paul speaks of this time further in Hebrews (I believe Paul is the unmentioned author) concerning the wrath of God,
12:26 “Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.”
Of course, we can get a feel of God's wrath when we go to Revelation, but this book is not the only place that speaks of God's wrath to come, but we get the intensity and fierceness of the idea: Revelation,
6:13“And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:”
Understand one thing my reader, the coming time of tribulation is divine judgment on a world devoid of love for one another, and committing untold sinful acts in complete rebellion to God's Law and authority, and who have whole-hardheartedly rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only payment for their sinful condition. Do we not understand that God will destroy up to 80% of all mankind in natural environmental catastrophes and what only be assigned extraordinary Divine occurrences not known to man in modern times and can only be attributed to Almighty God? Humanity is nearly wiped out, but as John wrote, “if the time were not shortened, no flesh would be saved” Let us guesstimate the carnage that will be inflicted on this world, if all of us were still on this planet and none of us were removed. Right now we are approaching or have eclipsed the 7 billion mark of humanity on this planet. If we somehow envision the destruction of 80% of all mankind, that would be 5.6 billion people dying a horrible death leaving roughly little more than 1.4 billion people left. God warned that He will punish the inhabitants of the earth.
Isaiah 26:20 speaks of this coming wrath:
26:19 “Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.”
(A clear passage of divine intervention and removal of His people before He slays mankind on earth)
Jesus also gave, what I believe is a sister verse of the one Isaiah wrote down, found in John 14:2-4,
“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.”
See the parallel between the two verse passages? Jesus is coming to bring us to Himself, that where He is, we will be...He will hide us in our chambers, our mansions until His indignation passes by....God will come for judgment and we are not involved in it at all.
Oh, I hear the objections who say that the last trump in the opening verses of this message is the same trump that the 7th angel blows in Revelation, but fail to understand that Paul was speaking of a last trump associated with the Feast of Trumpets. For a detailed summary of my position on this gross error by some churches today, go to my website and read “Confusion over End-time Events” or even my last message, “Did Jesus Reveal the Day of His Return?”. In each, the conflicts over these trumpets will be explained. One signals a joyous reunion, the other brings damnation and judgment to those upon the earth....they are NOT the same trumpet that Paul spoke of, as John spoke of a totally different trump in a different time frame.
Paul steps it up a bit in the later chapters of 1st Thessalonians in chapter 5:
5:1 “But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,”
How much more clear can Paul say it? Paul speaks of Jesus coming as a thief, or in secret and the nations not knowing the hour of His coming. Do you think that the coming of the Lord when He comes to rule on this planet for 1000 years at the end of the Tribulation will be proceeded in secret? Do you think He will come when they expect it not? Paul talks of sudden destruction, as woman in child labor will not escape the pain or the delivery of the baby. What fits this scenario, a sudden, without warning snatching away of children of light, to the horror of the children of darkness...OR would it be more plausible for them to be going about business as usual in the very run-up to the Glorious Appearing of Jesus Christ in the clouds of glory with great power ( proceeded by the appearance of great signs and wonders in the heavens . Joel 2:30-31). With almost 5.6 billion people being consumed, dead bodies all around, with animals eating the corpses of those slain, and the carnage of divine retribution, would it be business as usual? Let us examine the signs of His post Tribulation appearing, shall we? Will it be business as usual? I think we can find the answer.
Revelation,
8:6 “And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.”
ON down,
8:12 “And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
Reading on down the horror that is unleashed by this fourth angel till we get to the fifth angel:
9:1 “And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.”
More pain and suffering/death when the sixth angel sounds his trumpet:
9:13 “And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.”
Then to the end of the chapter 9, descriptions of a most detailed description of what will befall rebellious mankind. Until, the seventh angel sounds his trumpet to unleash the final assault upon earth in an attempt to turn them to repentance, but God knows that they will not. Revelation 16:20 testifies that every island will be moved and mountains will fall flat. As a result of the great convulsion of the earth, massive land transformations occur, shifting mountains on land and undersea. Obviously, such a violent shaking will create unprecedented destruction and loss of life. As the conclusion of the sixth seal's disturbances, this displacement of terra firma is the calamity that most terrifies earth's inhabitants. Suddenly, nothing is stable—not even the earth under their feet!
Again, does this sound like Jesus coming back to this earth as a thief? Will not men know that they are under divine retribution? Will the world that is present be nearly extinguished of all life from what it was prior to the beginning of the opening of the 1st Seal, as found in Revelation 6:1? Will men be going about business as usual? Men's hearts will be failing them from fear, over what is coming upon the earth. Luke 21:26.
Sheer terror will reign supreme. Does this sound like business as usual? Opponents, ask yourselves, does this sound like as in the time of day of Noah (Matthew 24:37), or does it sound like there is another time period prior to these events that addresses this more realistically and prophetically? Think on that a bit, as I return to Paul addressing the Thessalonians in 2nd Thessalonians.
THE GREAT DAY OF THE LORD
Here the church at Thessalonica was troubled, as false prophets had entered into their midst and were preaching that the “Day of the Lord” had already happened. I call them “Ancient Preterist” who believed that all things had been fulfilled, and we were just waiting for Jesus to come back, except this church at Thessalonica understood the Day of the Lord, as judgment and wrath, not a sign of joy.
Paul admonished them:
1:4 “So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”
Paul re-teaches them what he had already told them concerning the coming “Day of the Lord”.
Why were they fearful? They believed that they had missed the coming of the Lord for His Church and were found wanting and not fit to be removed from the earth and were waiting for the judgment from God, which would mean they missed the greatest event in all of man-kind, next the crucifixion and resurrection of the Lord Jesus the Messiah. Paul explains:
2:1 “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
Paul explains that this MUST happen first before the Great Day of the Lord, and His judgment upon earth. John reveals in Revelation that this man is revealed by a number:
13:16 “And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.”
This is what Paul spoke of, and what John through the Revelation of Jesus Christ shared with us. He spoke again of this man. Going back to Paul, as he continues in chapter 2 of 2nd Thessalonians,
2:4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
THE RUNNER UP TO THE ANTI-CHRIST
No where in history after this time period has a man stood in the temple of Jerusalem and claimed to be a god. Only once in the history of the nation of Israel had a man stood in the temple and claimed to be a god, and it was many centuries before this verse was penned by Paul. What he is telling us, is that prophecy has duality, or will repeat itself in our time, and remember, these verses were written for us in modern end times, not just of the church Paul and John wrote them to. Who was that man who stood in the temple and a fore runner of the modern Abomination who causeth Desolation, as Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15? His name was Antiochus Epiphanies, and he made a statue of Zeus, with his face and put it in the Holy of Holies in the Temple of Jerusalem and proclaimed all must worship it on pain of death. He also sacrificed pigs on the altars of God, which were considered unclean. So this man defiled the temple that led to the Maccabean War and the observance of Hanukkah, or the cleansing of the temple. As Jesus prophesied, and as John and Paul revealed, it will happen again.
Let's look at verse 7 of this last passage. We, as watchmen on the wall, have hammered this home many, many times. Bible students, who is “only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”? If you said the Holy Spirit within each true born again Christian, you receive an A+, as by interpretation in context, it is the only thing that is holding back Satan the devil, having full sway on this earth and attempting full destruction of mankind, along with receiving worship for himself. I like theNIV's interpretation of this same passage...let's look at it:
2nd Thessaians 2:6-7 NIV, “And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time v. 7: for the secret power of lawlessness is already at work: but the ONE who now holds it back will continue to do so till HE is taken out of the way.”
For me, this is a strong argument that the church has been removed out of the way, BEFORE the man of perdition, whose name is identified with 666, is revealed and stands in the temple of God, claiming to be a god. Note that Jesus said that He would never leave us or forsake us, (Hebrews 13:5, Matthew 28:20) ,hence He sent His Holy Spirit, as counselor, comforter, and guider of our walk with our Lord and Savior. If God's Holy Spirit is removed, based on the clear Word of our Lord, who cannot lie, we will be removed as well.
Daniel chapter 9, and the Abomination that Causeth Desolation
KJV Daniel 9,
9:26 “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
I read where a national organized religion that split apart in the 80s, called the World Wide Church of God, interpreted that passage not to be the Anti-Christ, but the Messiah. Still in existence are pocket organizations who still adhere to this argument, in their attempt to discredit the concept that there will actually be an Anti-Christ, or argue against a 7 year tribulation. They are proponents of post-tribulation second coming and are anticipating, OR relishing the idea of being slain in the Tribulation. When I read that explanation, I was aghast. I went to a website of theirs and pulled this text:
“The most abused verse on the subject of the end times is Daniel 9:27, and it is a linchpin in the Pre-tribulation Rapture theory: 'Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.'Unlike the Protestants, we believe that "he" in this verse refers to Messiah, not Antichrist, for the main subject of this section is Messiah. Richard Ritenbaugh, Prophecy Watch.”
True, the beginning of the passage deals with Jesus Christ, but He did not cease the sacrifices in the temple. It continue unabated until 70 AD when the Temple was leveled to the ground by Roman soldiers of Tiberius. Then they go onto to say that:
In Isaiah 28:15, we protestants and "a covenant with death," say that the Antichrist makes a peace treaty for one week—seven years—with the Jews. But this makes no sense! Why would the Beast "destroy the city [Jerusalem] and the sanctuary" (Daniel 9:26), and "then . . . confirm a covenant . . . for one week"
In this analogy, they deny the clear implication of Daniel's 70 week prophecy that was interrupted when Messiah was cut off in year 483 of the prophecy. That leaves the last 7 years that must be completed for Israel to be saved and receive their Messiah. Obviously, they don't understand the time-line of history, or duality of prophecy. I think anyone, including this minister, is blinded by their ideology of a failed organization that proposed that the second return of Jesus Christ would be in 1972, hence many members of this denomination sold all they had, took no social security, or started living in caves. I recall the cry of “flee in 73” as their mantra. Did it happen? No, much like Harold Camping's failed prophecy, false prophets are all within the camp of the religious and doomed to their predictions of when or how Jesus will return. Now is that minister a false prophet? I am not singling him out, but it is a mindset of many post tribbers that this promise of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is suspect and that we all are full of hogwash which is rampant in this denomination and others just to be fair.
Others in this camp, propose that when Jesus comes in the clouds of heaven to receive His church at the end of the tribulation, that we will be changed. Yes, but then they propose that we turn right around or make a sharp U-turn and come right back down to do battle with the enemies of God in Jerusalem. They site Zechariah chapter 14, when Jesus' feet touch the Mount of Olives. I asked one minister I know, “are we going up to just saddle up?” coming with Jesus on horses, dressed in linen, white and clean as Revelation chapter 19 shows? He had no answer. And what about the Marriage Supper of the Lamb? He proposed it was poetic or an allegory....say what? This same minister pooh-poohs the Jewish wedding feast. Needless to say, we are not in agreement.
Let's examine scripturally what Daniel was referring to and that a vast majority of theologians that are of sound doctrine embrace. I take this from an online website to organize the thought process of examining this passage, which I totally agree with:
“Here are the Sixty nine (7 + 62) "WEEKS" that have already happened:
Daniel 9:25 “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be SEVEN WEEKS , and THREESCORE and TWO WEEKS: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.”
Daniel 9:26 “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.” (note the caps of Prince, and prince, my emphasis. Two different “princes”. Prince of Glory, and prince of this world)
Here is the ONE "WEEK" that remains”
Daniel 9:27 “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE WEEK : and in the MIDST of the WEEK he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
Since God said he would deal with the Jews as a NATION for SEVENTY "WEEKS" and He promised to regather them nationally in the future in preparation for His Coming, then, God plans to deal with the NATION Israel in the future for ONE "WEEK" before He returns. To say that ONE WEEK of Daniel 9:27 has already happened (since God says He will regather Israel as a NATION) is to say there will be 71 WEEKS. To say that the week WILL NOT happen in the future is to say there are less than SEVENTY "WEEKS."
Since we already know (from the 69 weeks that HAVE happened) that a "WEEK" is SEVEN YEARS, then, God must have a future dealing with the NATION Israel for SEVEN years.” (http://jesus-is-the-way.com/Endtimes927.html)
Spot on. Israel is the door to end time prophecy and Jerusalem is the key to that door. The Seventieth Week of Daniel's prophecy is future and deals with ISRAEL solely for their unbelief and to finish transgressions. Israel will embrace, finally, their Messiah and proclaim, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord”( Matthew 23:39). Our Father and our Lord and Savior will purify Israel as silver is refined in the fire. (Malachi 3:2). When Jesus spoke in Matthew 24, concerning the Abomination that Causeth Desolation, His message was pointed straight at Israel. I envision that the only ones who will remain when Jesus returns for divine judgment and take possession of His creation by the sword of His mouth, by speaking only the Words will be mostly Jewish by birth in the majority. He will completely destroy all rebellion, because the only ones who will listen to the 144,000 evangelist from the 12 tribes of Israel, will be of the nation of Israel proper, or those scattered over the earth with a minority of Gentiles that have believed the Truth about Jesus Christ. How many will be blinded to the truth and take the mark of the Beast is conjecture on my part, but is is prophesied that God will send them a lie, a strong delusion, 2nd Thessalonians,
2:8 “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
Note that if you are still here, then God will send you a strong delusion, A LIE, that you will believe because you want to. Your mind will have no protection, as the Holy Spirit is removed from His fullness, right along with His Church. Satan will have full sway, full unimpeded powers to deceive the human mind. Each of those left will embrace the false god of this world, known as the Anti-Christ, no matter what another religion might feed you. So as a watchman on the wall, I have given you witness of four of the major figures in your bible, John, Paul, Daniel, and the Master, Jesus our Messiah. I proclaim the truth, you decide whether to believe. Understand, that I am not preaching to scare you, but to warn you. There is coming a day when salvation will be mostly for the Jewish people, as the Church Age has suddenly ended for you, and you have been caught flat footed. You were not ready, and Jesus has come, as He said He would. Won't you make yourself ready. Wanna know how?
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in HIM, should not perish, but have everlasting life”.
Email me after reading John 3:16 then all of the Gospel of John, just who this man Jesus was, and IS....the great I AM, that I AM...Jehovah God. I would love to hear of your acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord of your life. Repent of your sins for today is the day of salvation. Turn to Jesus so that you will be not surprised by the soon return of our Lord Jesus Christ for His Church....will you be ready? Only if you believe John 3:16! The Lord Jesus is right at the door
This is Pastor Mike Taylor, praying God's salvation in your life and heart. If you have need for counseling, prayer of needs, or just a friendly listening ear, send me an email to realteam1999@sbcglobal.net, God bless you all,
till we meet at Jesus feet.
Comments
Kenneth Cadwell
02/22/2016 9:51am
You started off on the right understanding but as always where you went off on is 2 Thessalonians 2 as this chapter seems to throw all pre-tribs off.
Paul starts off posing two situations;
1) The coming of our Lord
2) Our gathering together to Him (rapture)
In verse 3 Paul shows those two events happen on the same day, and he then gives two situations that must take place before the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him both take place.
Paul states the falling away(apostasy) has to happen, and then the man of sin revealed before any gathering takes place !!!
The Greek word translated falling away in 2 Thess. 2:3 means depart in apostasy. A rapture would in no way be the same as that meaning, therefore the falling away is not the rapture.
The part that confuses people is the restrainer, as what people don't realize is the Holy Spirit does not have to be removed from earth or believers to remove His restraining.
Revelation makes it clear that their is only 2 Resurrections, the 1st being of believers in Christ and the 2nd is of the unbelievers and disobedient.
Here is another issue I have been shown by recently that needs to be addressed:
We have a census correct and the world's population can be pretty much accounted for now, so why does Revelation say this then:
(Revelation 7:9)
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Says these are pulled out of the GT and the number is so large no man could number. If it is only people who became believers during the GT then this group could be numbered.
This could only be speaking of all believers in Christ after they had been raptured up during the GT, or as the 1st Resurrection states at the end of the GT just before God's wrath is poured out.
This would align perfectly with Paul's statement of "those who are alive and remain."
Paul starts off posing two situations;
1) The coming of our Lord
2) Our gathering together to Him (rapture)
In verse 3 Paul shows those two events happen on the same day, and he then gives two situations that must take place before the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him both take place.
Paul states the falling away(apostasy) has to happen, and then the man of sin revealed before any gathering takes place !!!
The Greek word translated falling away in 2 Thess. 2:3 means depart in apostasy. A rapture would in no way be the same as that meaning, therefore the falling away is not the rapture.
The part that confuses people is the restrainer, as what people don't realize is the Holy Spirit does not have to be removed from earth or believers to remove His restraining.
Revelation makes it clear that their is only 2 Resurrections, the 1st being of believers in Christ and the 2nd is of the unbelievers and disobedient.
Here is another issue I have been shown by recently that needs to be addressed:
We have a census correct and the world's population can be pretty much accounted for now, so why does Revelation say this then:
(Revelation 7:9)
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Says these are pulled out of the GT and the number is so large no man could number. If it is only people who became believers during the GT then this group could be numbered.
This could only be speaking of all believers in Christ after they had been raptured up during the GT, or as the 1st Resurrection states at the end of the GT just before God's wrath is poured out.
This would align perfectly with Paul's statement of "those who are alive and remain."
02/22/2016 3:53pm
Kenneth,
when I get post like this, I just have to shake my head, as Ken, you just don't get it...read it again...the falling away will happen first, as a sign. The Day of the Lord (Christ) and His wrath upon the earth will not come until the man of sin is revealed...when is he revealed? IN the opening of the 1st seal and each subsequent seal opened unleashes more and more judgment upon the earth. You get the cart before the horse...read it again..."Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"...what shall not come? The day of the Lord, His wrath...what happens on the opening of the 1st seal...the beginning of His wrath and the revealing of the AC. The falling away, or apostasy is going on right now leading up to the revealing of God's wrath and opening of the 1st seal..then judgment comes rapidly during the 1st 3.5 years of the Tribulation, followed by the Great Tribulation when the "abomination that causes desolation" stands in the Temple claiming to be God. God's 7th seal and the bowl judgments are what makes this period of the last 3.5 years greater in vengeance and wrath coming from Almighty God as it is poured into the cup of His indignation without mixture, meaning full strength.
Your logic, I believe is in error, as I have many people who deny the Pre-Tribulation Rapture and twist the verses to support their position, but if you read it closely and see that the Holy Spirit must be removed before anything can be revealed, THEN the AC is revealed and the Tribulation begins in earnest for 7 years........apostasy and a falling away first, the Holy Spirit drawn back to Pre-New Testament times as was evident in the OT, and if the Holy Spirit is leaving, so are we !!!....then Jesus opens each seal in succession for the first 6 seals in the first 3.5 years...and then when they think it can't get any worse, the last 3.5 years proves them wrong...it will get much, much worse and will be so great a Tribulation, that if Jesus did not step back into our time and stop it, no flesh would be saved. Ken, work on your chronological order that says that "we are not appointed to wrath, but to receive salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord."
To your assertion that there are only 2 resurrections is true, but you miss one point...the first resurrection came in stages....Jesus the first fruits of those born of the dead, the Old Testament saints that came out their graves when Jesus was resurrected and Jesus emptied "Paradise", and those resurrected at the rapture, and then finally, those resurrected at the end of the Tribulation, or Tribulation saints...collectively, they are part of the 1st resurrection...the next or 2nd resurrection is the raising of the wicked unto judgment......read a little more Ken, you might come up with the answer for yourself of what I just gave you...God bless,
YBIC,
Pastor MIke
when I get post like this, I just have to shake my head, as Ken, you just don't get it...read it again...the falling away will happen first, as a sign. The Day of the Lord (Christ) and His wrath upon the earth will not come until the man of sin is revealed...when is he revealed? IN the opening of the 1st seal and each subsequent seal opened unleashes more and more judgment upon the earth. You get the cart before the horse...read it again..."Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"...what shall not come? The day of the Lord, His wrath...what happens on the opening of the 1st seal...the beginning of His wrath and the revealing of the AC. The falling away, or apostasy is going on right now leading up to the revealing of God's wrath and opening of the 1st seal..then judgment comes rapidly during the 1st 3.5 years of the Tribulation, followed by the Great Tribulation when the "abomination that causes desolation" stands in the Temple claiming to be God. God's 7th seal and the bowl judgments are what makes this period of the last 3.5 years greater in vengeance and wrath coming from Almighty God as it is poured into the cup of His indignation without mixture, meaning full strength.
Your logic, I believe is in error, as I have many people who deny the Pre-Tribulation Rapture and twist the verses to support their position, but if you read it closely and see that the Holy Spirit must be removed before anything can be revealed, THEN the AC is revealed and the Tribulation begins in earnest for 7 years........apostasy and a falling away first, the Holy Spirit drawn back to Pre-New Testament times as was evident in the OT, and if the Holy Spirit is leaving, so are we !!!....then Jesus opens each seal in succession for the first 6 seals in the first 3.5 years...and then when they think it can't get any worse, the last 3.5 years proves them wrong...it will get much, much worse and will be so great a Tribulation, that if Jesus did not step back into our time and stop it, no flesh would be saved. Ken, work on your chronological order that says that "we are not appointed to wrath, but to receive salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord."
To your assertion that there are only 2 resurrections is true, but you miss one point...the first resurrection came in stages....Jesus the first fruits of those born of the dead, the Old Testament saints that came out their graves when Jesus was resurrected and Jesus emptied "Paradise", and those resurrected at the rapture, and then finally, those resurrected at the end of the Tribulation, or Tribulation saints...collectively, they are part of the 1st resurrection...the next or 2nd resurrection is the raising of the wicked unto judgment......read a little more Ken, you might come up with the answer for yourself of what I just gave you...God bless,
YBIC,
Pastor MIke
Heather
02/27/2016 8:52am
Amen Pastor Mike! Concerning these verses you posted.Through these verses from the Word of God, we see a gradual INCREASE in God’s judgements!
8:6 “And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared
themselves to sound.
8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled
with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the THIRD PART of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the THIRD PART of the sea became blood;
8:9 And the THIRD PART of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.”
When Jesus opens the 1st seal, we see the rider on the white horse being released. The Antichrist rising to power. Releasing the Antichrist onto the world. Is that going to be a good thing? Of course not. It's the very beginning of God's judgements onto a wicked generation of Christ rejecting people on earth!
As darkness increases by the day for this old world, the door is soon to be shut on the opportunity for God's people in the age of God's Grace to reach even one more lost soul. Time is really running out. Bless you brother! Amen and Amen!
8:6 “And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared
themselves to sound.
8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled
with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the THIRD PART of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the THIRD PART of the sea became blood;
8:9 And the THIRD PART of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.”
When Jesus opens the 1st seal, we see the rider on the white horse being released. The Antichrist rising to power. Releasing the Antichrist onto the world. Is that going to be a good thing? Of course not. It's the very beginning of God's judgements onto a wicked generation of Christ rejecting people on earth!
As darkness increases by the day for this old world, the door is soon to be shut on the opportunity for God's people in the age of God's Grace to reach even one more lost soul. Time is really running out. Bless you brother! Amen and Amen!
Dwight Osborne
02/27/2016 8:02pm
Dear Mr. Taylor, so many say that a "falling away" must occur first. However, in the first 7 English translations of the Bible it read that there would be a "departing" first before the man of sin is revealed. It seems to me that the word "apostasy" changed meaning somewhere between the Geneva Bible and the King James Bible. One thing I do know is that the revelation of the anti-christ isn't dependent on anyone falling away from the faith, but it is dependent on the rapture having already happened. If the rapture hasn't happened by the time that peace covenant (Yahweh actually calls it a covenant with death) is confirmed then every one of us who knows the one who confirms that covenant, according to Daniel 9:27, would be shouting to high heaven that he is the one the world is looking for. Your thoughts?
02/28/2016 6:40pm
To Dwight's comment,
I have the interpretation of "apostasy" to mean just what you said. I've seen it explained both ways....I'm inclined to believe that the word "apostasy" in the Greek's definition is a circle with a straight line moving in a vertical position away from the circle that is lying flat. In other words, moving an object or person from point A to point B in a straight line pathway away from the original setting of time and place.
We do know that there will be a "falling away" from the Truth of God's Word, as we see that happening right now, so whether the word "apostasy" has either meaning to be correct, they will both happen BEFORE the Tribulation starts...I believe the church will be removed in either example from the earth into a "place of safety" for the child of God. That place is at the "marriage supper of the lamb" and we will be changed to immortal spirits before we arrive to that banquet held somewhere in the heavenly places. Both references to the meaning of that one word is another example of the Pre-Tribulation removal of the Church.
I have the interpretation of "apostasy" to mean just what you said. I've seen it explained both ways....I'm inclined to believe that the word "apostasy" in the Greek's definition is a circle with a straight line moving in a vertical position away from the circle that is lying flat. In other words, moving an object or person from point A to point B in a straight line pathway away from the original setting of time and place.
We do know that there will be a "falling away" from the Truth of God's Word, as we see that happening right now, so whether the word "apostasy" has either meaning to be correct, they will both happen BEFORE the Tribulation starts...I believe the church will be removed in either example from the earth into a "place of safety" for the child of God. That place is at the "marriage supper of the lamb" and we will be changed to immortal spirits before we arrive to that banquet held somewhere in the heavenly places. Both references to the meaning of that one word is another example of the Pre-Tribulation removal of the Church.
Ort
02/22/2016 1:13pm
Awesome, Pastor Mike! I still can't understand why so many think that the Groom somehow has to beat the tar out of His Bride before He comes for Her! His death made us "without spot or blemish", so why do we need to suffer through the Tribulation??
If we think about that more closely, it is blasphemous in the extreme---it is saying that the Atonement of the cross is insufficient! God forbid anyone should hold to that doctrine. If you take the doctrine of Purgatory, it is along the same lines. It is nothing short of apostasy to say that souls will need further purifying after our King said "Tetelestai!!" Paid. In. Full!!
MARANATHA!!!!
If we think about that more closely, it is blasphemous in the extreme---it is saying that the Atonement of the cross is insufficient! God forbid anyone should hold to that doctrine. If you take the doctrine of Purgatory, it is along the same lines. It is nothing short of apostasy to say that souls will need further purifying after our King said "Tetelestai!!" Paid. In. Full!!
MARANATHA!!!!
02/22/2016 1:26pm
Mike it's time you grew up and put away those childish religion doctrines... There is no such thing as a 'rapture'!
You're going to have to face the music just like the rest of us.you can't hide behind the skirts of religion.
Jakc of the universe
You're going to have to face the music just like the rest of us.you can't hide behind the skirts of religion.
Jakc of the universe
02/22/2016 3:22pm
Jakc.
ahhh...a humanist that believes in only himself, is that your position? Sadly, that is not hope when we are to believe in the "Blessed Hope" Jesus Christ. I get some who just want to object that "we are not appointed to wrath"....I don't know if you're a Christian or not Jakc, but hang around long enough and you'll see Tribulation if Jesus Christ is NOT your Lord and Savior. The only music I will be facing is the Hallelujah and the chorus that we will sing "a song unto the Lamb"...Note that there is no hiding behind anyone's skirts, but I have put my faith in the author and finisher of my faith and He says you are wrong...but thanks for the childish post of an unbeliever...
Pastor Mike
ahhh...a humanist that believes in only himself, is that your position? Sadly, that is not hope when we are to believe in the "Blessed Hope" Jesus Christ. I get some who just want to object that "we are not appointed to wrath"....I don't know if you're a Christian or not Jakc, but hang around long enough and you'll see Tribulation if Jesus Christ is NOT your Lord and Savior. The only music I will be facing is the Hallelujah and the chorus that we will sing "a song unto the Lamb"...Note that there is no hiding behind anyone's skirts, but I have put my faith in the author and finisher of my faith and He says you are wrong...but thanks for the childish post of an unbeliever...
Pastor Mike
02/22/2016 3:24pm
Jakc,
I think Ort has a good rebuttal of your position....see his answer above..
Pastor MIke
I think Ort has a good rebuttal of your position....see his answer above..
Pastor MIke
Karen
02/22/2016 8:19pm
I don't want to be beaten up by my groom either, but He did say that
He would take a purified Bride home, so a little Fright just might be necessary to give us the incentive that we need to put God as our first priority. I think that where people make a mistake is in assuming that things suddenly occur; I beg to differ with this and propose that rather what we are looking at is a gradual process of things, such as the four horsemen riding and the falling away occurring simultaneously and in stages, not perhaps always being apparent, dependent on your personal circumstances. I personally believe that the Restrainer is the angel Michael, and that it is God/Jesus Himself who blows that last trump- not an angel.
He would take a purified Bride home, so a little Fright just might be necessary to give us the incentive that we need to put God as our first priority. I think that where people make a mistake is in assuming that things suddenly occur; I beg to differ with this and propose that rather what we are looking at is a gradual process of things, such as the four horsemen riding and the falling away occurring simultaneously and in stages, not perhaps always being apparent, dependent on your personal circumstances. I personally believe that the Restrainer is the angel Michael, and that it is God/Jesus Himself who blows that last trump- not an angel.
02/24/2016 10:58am
Karen,
respectfully, I must disagree with you. What can you do or suffer that will make any difference in your salvation? Answer, nothing!!...Salvation is a free gift received by faith. "8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians ch. 2.
Jesus is coming for a spotless and a bride without blemish...and who gave them that clean, spotless and without blemish appearance? Jesus did by His sacrifice on the cross.
To think otherwise, is to blaspheme the sacrifice Jesus paid for us all. To say that we must be "purified" during the Tribulation, is to say that the blood of Jesus just was not good enough...No, my sister, that smacks of purgatory and the Catholic heresy against the salvation by no other than Jesus Christ. When the 1st-6th seal is broken by Jesus Christ, rebellion on this earth will be judged. Those who have not put their faith in Jesus Christ will experience this devastation brought about by God's wrath...but "we are not appointed to wrath, but to receive salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord"....How can it be salvation "or saving out of" if we are allowed to receive even a portion of God's wrath...where is the "blessed Hope", if we are given no hope of this salvation? Answer, Jesus saves us, and will remove us out of the way of His wrath...there is NO example within the pages of your Bible where God has not done the same thing time after time. Remember what Abraham got God to agree to upon sparing Sodom and Gommarah? If there be even 10 righteous, He would spare the city, but only Lot and his immediate family were found to be righteous and were removed from the city before God's wrath was poured out....God has always been a God to honor those that are His and love Him by removing them out of the way of His wrath....the coming Tribulation is no different...God bless,
YBIC,
Pastor MIke
respectfully, I must disagree with you. What can you do or suffer that will make any difference in your salvation? Answer, nothing!!...Salvation is a free gift received by faith. "8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians ch. 2.
Jesus is coming for a spotless and a bride without blemish...and who gave them that clean, spotless and without blemish appearance? Jesus did by His sacrifice on the cross.
To think otherwise, is to blaspheme the sacrifice Jesus paid for us all. To say that we must be "purified" during the Tribulation, is to say that the blood of Jesus just was not good enough...No, my sister, that smacks of purgatory and the Catholic heresy against the salvation by no other than Jesus Christ. When the 1st-6th seal is broken by Jesus Christ, rebellion on this earth will be judged. Those who have not put their faith in Jesus Christ will experience this devastation brought about by God's wrath...but "we are not appointed to wrath, but to receive salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord"....How can it be salvation "or saving out of" if we are allowed to receive even a portion of God's wrath...where is the "blessed Hope", if we are given no hope of this salvation? Answer, Jesus saves us, and will remove us out of the way of His wrath...there is NO example within the pages of your Bible where God has not done the same thing time after time. Remember what Abraham got God to agree to upon sparing Sodom and Gommarah? If there be even 10 righteous, He would spare the city, but only Lot and his immediate family were found to be righteous and were removed from the city before God's wrath was poured out....God has always been a God to honor those that are His and love Him by removing them out of the way of His wrath....the coming Tribulation is no different...God bless,
YBIC,
Pastor MIke
Marissa
02/23/2016 4:39am
Greetings, Pastor Mike! Thank you for another great article. I have a question for you. I was recently reading through Revelation again and a particular verse jumped out at me.
Rev 16:15
("Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.")
If the pre-trib rapture is imminent, which I've always been taught and believed that it is because of this exact referenced statement being made by Jesus in the gospels, then what in the world is it doing in the heat of the great tribulation where all those on the earth will by this time have no doubt of Jesus' return being right around the corner?
And in my humble opinion, as I continue to study the timing of the rapture and all the different view points, I firmly believe that the strongest evidence for the pre-trib rapture is that we, the church, are not appointed to wrath but Jesus rescues us from it. God has not one time in the Bible poured His judgement out on the righteous. Until someone can show me that He has I will never be able to believe that He will during the great tribulation.
I eagerly await your response to my question and I thank you in advance for your time.
Rev 16:15
("Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.")
If the pre-trib rapture is imminent, which I've always been taught and believed that it is because of this exact referenced statement being made by Jesus in the gospels, then what in the world is it doing in the heat of the great tribulation where all those on the earth will by this time have no doubt of Jesus' return being right around the corner?
And in my humble opinion, as I continue to study the timing of the rapture and all the different view points, I firmly believe that the strongest evidence for the pre-trib rapture is that we, the church, are not appointed to wrath but Jesus rescues us from it. God has not one time in the Bible poured His judgement out on the righteous. Until someone can show me that He has I will never be able to believe that He will during the great tribulation.
I eagerly await your response to my question and I thank you in advance for your time.
02/24/2016 11:26am
Marissa,
you raise an interesting point...it's like this verse just dropped into this passage of what is going on in the Tribulation...but in verse 12 the activity begins in the Euphrates River (Babylon sits on its original banks) and proceeds to show “unclean spirits, like frogs,” which proceed from the mouths of Satan, the Antichrist, and the false prophet. They go forth to deceive and prepare the world for this forthcoming war between heaven and hell. Then, suddenly, the Holy Spirit inspires John to speak to the church. “Behold I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth and keepeth his garment (wedding attire) lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” (Revelation 16:15)
There is only one reason He placed this great warning in the midst of such a clear description of Satan’s evil power that will reign in the dark period before the final battle of Armageddon. We in the church waiting for the “Rapture” are now witnessing the rise of these evil forces. They will continue to increase until the Rapture and then explode after the church Bride is gone. Paul was clear to state that the Bride of Christ filled with the Holy Ghost is the only restraining power on this earth.
“And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.” (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8)
This Scripture does not suggest that Satan cannot do anything toward his goal of world control before the Bride of Christ is gone, but rather that he is limited. History will certainly confirm that he has had great power to destroy; but, also, that he has never been able to create world domination like he will do when the restraints are lifted.....I believe what John has been told by Jesus is that each of reading this description of the horrors of the Tribulation, should keep watch and our garments clean, as the hour of His wrath will be revealed like a thief, as Jesus will come and remove His Church, those whose garments are clean by His blood, and then the Tribulation will start. Some translations have this verse in quotes, as Jesus had said this warning before even to the church of Sardis and the verses leading up to chapter 4 and the revealing of the Church sitting on thrones with crowns upon their heads as 24 elders....God bless,
YBIC,
Pastor Mike
you raise an interesting point...it's like this verse just dropped into this passage of what is going on in the Tribulation...but in verse 12 the activity begins in the Euphrates River (Babylon sits on its original banks) and proceeds to show “unclean spirits, like frogs,” which proceed from the mouths of Satan, the Antichrist, and the false prophet. They go forth to deceive and prepare the world for this forthcoming war between heaven and hell. Then, suddenly, the Holy Spirit inspires John to speak to the church. “Behold I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth and keepeth his garment (wedding attire) lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” (Revelation 16:15)
There is only one reason He placed this great warning in the midst of such a clear description of Satan’s evil power that will reign in the dark period before the final battle of Armageddon. We in the church waiting for the “Rapture” are now witnessing the rise of these evil forces. They will continue to increase until the Rapture and then explode after the church Bride is gone. Paul was clear to state that the Bride of Christ filled with the Holy Ghost is the only restraining power on this earth.
“And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.” (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8)
This Scripture does not suggest that Satan cannot do anything toward his goal of world control before the Bride of Christ is gone, but rather that he is limited. History will certainly confirm that he has had great power to destroy; but, also, that he has never been able to create world domination like he will do when the restraints are lifted.....I believe what John has been told by Jesus is that each of reading this description of the horrors of the Tribulation, should keep watch and our garments clean, as the hour of His wrath will be revealed like a thief, as Jesus will come and remove His Church, those whose garments are clean by His blood, and then the Tribulation will start. Some translations have this verse in quotes, as Jesus had said this warning before even to the church of Sardis and the verses leading up to chapter 4 and the revealing of the Church sitting on thrones with crowns upon their heads as 24 elders....God bless,
YBIC,
Pastor Mike
kim segar
02/24/2016 7:47am
I believe you are spot on Mike..the sad part are those who call themselves christians and are against many bible teachings. I think it is very clear what G-d has taught thru the whole bible. In genesis 12:3 He warns of those who do not bless Israel..and even the ones who don't hate the Jews but do not support them. G-d says they are cursed yet they are still against Israel and stand with the enemies of Israel and G-d Himself..and even after John 3:18.. it tells us whosoever believes in Jesus ,,so...if they believe in HIM as the only way truth and life then why do they think it is ok to overlook His warning on Israel. Paul in Romans 9, 10 and 11 tell us Salvation came thru the Jews, Jesus is a Jew, and they gave us scripture and all truth..and then it explains how we owe the Jews a debt as G-d blinded the Jews so us Heathen goy would have the power to become sons of G-d and He tells us the times of the gentiles over will turn His eyes back to Jerusalem and take the vail off their eyes which is happen as of the last few yrs and more now..even rabb's are getting saved. it is the gentiles falling away and calling themselves little gods with a little g... unreal. they over look the fact that pau tells us to go into all the world and preach the gosple to the JEW first and to all the world..how many times has anyone heard pastors not even mention the word Jew while teaching...G-d tells us pastors will get double punishment as the truth is we after being saved are grafted into the Olive Tree , and the church did not replace Israel as the root suports the church.. un REV 4, G-d tells us to count ourselves Worthy to escape the things coming down on the earth and tells the true church , jCome up Hither.. in the first of Rev he tells the churches what HE has against them, but today they won't listen...the book of Jer is referred to much and yet ten yrs after it was written Zech tells us..that when He stands on the Mt of Olive He will bring up the dead is coming with Redempton for the Jews as they received double for their sins and He gives them a new heart and pure and they see who they peirced and mound like a first son and ALL Israel will be saved..,,people need to remember that HE blinded the Jews for us heathen so we woudl have a chance....shame on them who take the scripture out of context, endup with pretext and we know that is a lie they have now. I love You and bless You Pastor Mike,, the church need to realize to as they fall away and become twice the sons of hell as G-d said..from the narrow road to the wide road...also where G-d tells all of us, I wish you were either hot or cold but because you are Luke Warm , I will vomit you out of my mouth Shalom
Pete
03/03/2016 1:33am
I have always been a believer of the pre trib rapture. So I will not go into all the reasons why I believe it. As many biblical scholars have present much better reasons then I have the space here to do. So, if you hold a different rapture timing position do us all a favour and not start an argument over the timing. You are free to believe what you wish, as I am, and that discussion has already been hashed over to death. Let's just agree to disagree.
However, over the past while I have been looking at Revelation when John is called up to heaven. Many hold to the position that this is the Rapture claiming the church is not mentioned afterwards. Therefore, the seals are part of the tribulation period. However, I have come to disagree with this position. What follows are my reasons why.
1. It's been taught that the crowd in heaven and the 24 elders mentioned upon his arrival represent the church. But, this cannot be correct. My reason. Jesus is not in heaven at the time of John's arrival. We know this because John weeps because no one is worthy to open the seals, neither in heaven, on the earth or under the earth. The only time this is possible is during the ascension of Christ. Without the resurrection and ascension before the arrival of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost there was no church. Thereby negating the elders and the crowds. Besides, scripture is clear for the church believer. Absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Without Jesus in heaven at Johns arrival it is impossible for the church to be there without Him.
2. Point 1 above is also supported by the fact of johns arrival timing. By the arrival of Jesus himself. As the lamb which was slain. The elder tells John to stop weeping for someone was found. Jesus just arrived in heaven. This has to be after the resurrection because of the words of Christ to the woman in the garden. He told her not to touch him as He had not yet gone to see His Father.
3. When Jesus returns He immediately opens the first seal. The rider on the white horse. Many believe this to be the antichrist. Because it supports their position of the rapture happening at the beginning of the trib. Because they include the seals in the tribulation. This just does not make sense. Jesus just arrived in heaven Pentecost has not happened, He was just assended. So, the white horse is not the person of the antichrist. I believe the white horse is the spirit of anti Christ. Which makes sense because before John wrote Revelation he had previously written letters on the spirit of antichrist which was prevalent in the newly birthed church.
4. The following 3 seals may have been opened immediately at the same time as the first or over a period of time I do not know. However, I tend to place them immediately after. I believe these seals are in direct correlation to the birth pains Jesus talked about becoming more intense. But, what we do know from history is that all the activities certainly increased with the passage of history. Have a quarter of the world died from them. Not at a single time no. But, collectively at best we can only guess. But think of all the people who died from even simple illness till now not to mention small pox, TB, etc. Today we have AIDs, SARS, H1N1, Ebola, even illness we conquered are making a come back. All links to the birth pains. War same deal. Larger and more frequent.
5. Now we come to the 5th seal. Traditionally we have been told these are the tribulation saints. But that just does not make sense. Why, because they ask Jesus when He will avenge their shed blood. If they had died in the tribulation they would know when. Because had they been in the tribulation they would have known it was occurring as the trumpet and bowls were poured on the earth. They would have been in the middle of it so why do they need to ask what they already know. The would also be aware of the timing for His second coming. The only people that would have been martyred and not know are those saints killed prior to the tribulation period. More Christians have been killed in the last century then any other time in history. Increase in occurrence and frequency just like a birth pain.
6. The sixth seal is next. It is my position that the rapture happens either prior to or in concurrence with the opening of this seal. But, what is very clear in the text is that those on the earth know the tribulation has just started. How could this be possible if the prior 5 seals are part of the tribulation. What they were just unaware? I don't think so! They definitively know judgement is coming. They announce it in no uncertain terms. It's obvious. What is interesting is the solar eclipse and blood moon! Was the Japanese tsunami earthquake the precursor earthquake mentioned? I do not know. But I would hazard we have another major one before the next full solar eclipse. We shall see.
7. What happens next. The se
However, over the past while I have been looking at Revelation when John is called up to heaven. Many hold to the position that this is the Rapture claiming the church is not mentioned afterwards. Therefore, the seals are part of the tribulation period. However, I have come to disagree with this position. What follows are my reasons why.
1. It's been taught that the crowd in heaven and the 24 elders mentioned upon his arrival represent the church. But, this cannot be correct. My reason. Jesus is not in heaven at the time of John's arrival. We know this because John weeps because no one is worthy to open the seals, neither in heaven, on the earth or under the earth. The only time this is possible is during the ascension of Christ. Without the resurrection and ascension before the arrival of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost there was no church. Thereby negating the elders and the crowds. Besides, scripture is clear for the church believer. Absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Without Jesus in heaven at Johns arrival it is impossible for the church to be there without Him.
2. Point 1 above is also supported by the fact of johns arrival timing. By the arrival of Jesus himself. As the lamb which was slain. The elder tells John to stop weeping for someone was found. Jesus just arrived in heaven. This has to be after the resurrection because of the words of Christ to the woman in the garden. He told her not to touch him as He had not yet gone to see His Father.
3. When Jesus returns He immediately opens the first seal. The rider on the white horse. Many believe this to be the antichrist. Because it supports their position of the rapture happening at the beginning of the trib. Because they include the seals in the tribulation. This just does not make sense. Jesus just arrived in heaven Pentecost has not happened, He was just assended. So, the white horse is not the person of the antichrist. I believe the white horse is the spirit of anti Christ. Which makes sense because before John wrote Revelation he had previously written letters on the spirit of antichrist which was prevalent in the newly birthed church.
4. The following 3 seals may have been opened immediately at the same time as the first or over a period of time I do not know. However, I tend to place them immediately after. I believe these seals are in direct correlation to the birth pains Jesus talked about becoming more intense. But, what we do know from history is that all the activities certainly increased with the passage of history. Have a quarter of the world died from them. Not at a single time no. But, collectively at best we can only guess. But think of all the people who died from even simple illness till now not to mention small pox, TB, etc. Today we have AIDs, SARS, H1N1, Ebola, even illness we conquered are making a come back. All links to the birth pains. War same deal. Larger and more frequent.
5. Now we come to the 5th seal. Traditionally we have been told these are the tribulation saints. But that just does not make sense. Why, because they ask Jesus when He will avenge their shed blood. If they had died in the tribulation they would know when. Because had they been in the tribulation they would have known it was occurring as the trumpet and bowls were poured on the earth. They would have been in the middle of it so why do they need to ask what they already know. The would also be aware of the timing for His second coming. The only people that would have been martyred and not know are those saints killed prior to the tribulation period. More Christians have been killed in the last century then any other time in history. Increase in occurrence and frequency just like a birth pain.
6. The sixth seal is next. It is my position that the rapture happens either prior to or in concurrence with the opening of this seal. But, what is very clear in the text is that those on the earth know the tribulation has just started. How could this be possible if the prior 5 seals are part of the tribulation. What they were just unaware? I don't think so! They definitively know judgement is coming. They announce it in no uncertain terms. It's obvious. What is interesting is the solar eclipse and blood moon! Was the Japanese tsunami earthquake the precursor earthquake mentioned? I do not know. But I would hazard we have another major one before the next full solar eclipse. We shall see.
7. What happens next. The se
03/24/2016 5:21pm
Wow, Pete...you leave me shaking my head!! You say you are pre-trib in your opening statement...so when did you change your mind?? Let me take each point and refute your argument, but then again, I have so many messages on this website, that I shouldn't have to, if you read them prayerfully.
1. The 24 elders ARE indeed a representation of the church and the saints of the OT..12+12 each. They have crowns on the heads, or a sign of rewards..they sit on thrones, they have been given dominion. they sit because they have completed their tasks of redemption through Christ. they are human, as no angel in heaven has been given this honor to reign and rule.
2. You make a stretch of an assumption that Christ is not there. This is 65 years after the resurrection of Jesus Christ...The imagery is the completed work of Jesus Christ, and He alone is worthy to reclaim the earth..That is what God the Father hands Him...the deed to the earth...but it must be cleansed first. ...because of man's rebellion, the wrath of God begins and it is Jesus is the Judge of all the earth.
3. Another fallacy of assumption that Jesus just arrived. This is NOT about the ascension of Christ...This is about Jesus finishing the reclaiming was is rightfully His..His creation that was lost due to the original sin. The 1st seal is broken, and judgement begins...God uses men to bring judgment on the nations..much like Nebachadnezzer brought judgment on Israel and used by God to bring His wrath upon a rebellious nation.
4. The first 6 seals correspond to the first 3.5 years of the Tribulation..how quick God opens them, we don't know, but it takes that long for the kings of the earth to realize that judgment has come and they ask for the rocks to fall upon them and hide them from God Almighty and the wrath of the Lamb. You seem to be making a case for plaques of diseases and wars that we are in the Tribulation now...these are birth pangs...The Tribulation does not start until the Holy Spirit and His indwelt church is removed from this planet...
5&6, This would make a Mid-Trib believer now and don't know that the saints under the altar and those standing before the Lamb on Mt. Zion with Palm fronds in their hands, national Israel worldwide and include some Gentiles that missed the rapture, but embraced their Messiah and it cost them each, their very lives....No, Pete...you have been led astray by those who think they got the Tribulation all figured out and don't realize that the last half of the Tribulation is when Satan and the AC get really busy to destroy Israel and try and make God out a liar over saving Israel. You have to decide, when does God's wrath start?? Is it the first seal, or after the 6th one? Who is opening the seals? Correct, Jesus our Lord God...it is His judgment on this rebellious world...designed for 2 things only.....Israel refined as silver is in the fire, and to extinguish all rebellion on planet earth entirely. Any other explanation is as you say "doesn't make sense"....God bless and thanks for a chance to sound off and give God the all the Glory...
Pastor Mike
1. The 24 elders ARE indeed a representation of the church and the saints of the OT..12+12 each. They have crowns on the heads, or a sign of rewards..they sit on thrones, they have been given dominion. they sit because they have completed their tasks of redemption through Christ. they are human, as no angel in heaven has been given this honor to reign and rule.
2. You make a stretch of an assumption that Christ is not there. This is 65 years after the resurrection of Jesus Christ...The imagery is the completed work of Jesus Christ, and He alone is worthy to reclaim the earth..That is what God the Father hands Him...the deed to the earth...but it must be cleansed first. ...because of man's rebellion, the wrath of God begins and it is Jesus is the Judge of all the earth.
3. Another fallacy of assumption that Jesus just arrived. This is NOT about the ascension of Christ...This is about Jesus finishing the reclaiming was is rightfully His..His creation that was lost due to the original sin. The 1st seal is broken, and judgement begins...God uses men to bring judgment on the nations..much like Nebachadnezzer brought judgment on Israel and used by God to bring His wrath upon a rebellious nation.
4. The first 6 seals correspond to the first 3.5 years of the Tribulation..how quick God opens them, we don't know, but it takes that long for the kings of the earth to realize that judgment has come and they ask for the rocks to fall upon them and hide them from God Almighty and the wrath of the Lamb. You seem to be making a case for plaques of diseases and wars that we are in the Tribulation now...these are birth pangs...The Tribulation does not start until the Holy Spirit and His indwelt church is removed from this planet...
5&6, This would make a Mid-Trib believer now and don't know that the saints under the altar and those standing before the Lamb on Mt. Zion with Palm fronds in their hands, national Israel worldwide and include some Gentiles that missed the rapture, but embraced their Messiah and it cost them each, their very lives....No, Pete...you have been led astray by those who think they got the Tribulation all figured out and don't realize that the last half of the Tribulation is when Satan and the AC get really busy to destroy Israel and try and make God out a liar over saving Israel. You have to decide, when does God's wrath start?? Is it the first seal, or after the 6th one? Who is opening the seals? Correct, Jesus our Lord God...it is His judgment on this rebellious world...designed for 2 things only.....Israel refined as silver is in the fire, and to extinguish all rebellion on planet earth entirely. Any other explanation is as you say "doesn't make sense"....God bless and thanks for a chance to sound off and give God the all the Glory...
Pastor Mike
